FAQ  •  Register  •  Login

BUGS Swarming our position! Request suppressing fire

Moderators: Ratman, Seto, Saruman

<<

Muttie

Accepted

Posts: 39

Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2017 10:42 pm

Post Tue Jan 30, 2018 10:29 pm

Re: BUGS Swarming our position! Request suppressing fire

A few more minor points:

It's really silly banging on about karma, but the four gecko hunts with the tribe seem to give about 145 karma (36+36+48+15+10) (that's: 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, report back to Gurgan). Is this correct?
I feel a bit awkward bringing this up repeatedly as there very well may be a system I'm simply not fully comprehending. I'm just baffled. (I mean talking Valery in Corath into suicide is only -30 karma? Blackmailing Alexa is -100. But going hunting makes up for both of it. That does seem off to me.)
I only tested this with one character (female, CH8) and there could be something like a CH multiplier, but still...
Killing a tribal-hunter is -10 karma (during the second hunt), which means if I kill two of them and then run off the map I end up with +16 karma when reporting back to Gurgan. That can't be right.
Personally I wouldn't award any karma for gecko hunting (the first three hunts), or at least not that much, but perhaps only 3+3+4+15+10).

Side note: I suspected that this could have been a concept to prevent the player from not caring about the hunters (and letting them die) (like 12 karma per surviving hunter) but it doesn't seem to be the case. However, as a result I had the idea of having the number of Gecko Pelts regulate it. Like 1 golden gecko pelt per surviving hunter, instead of a fixed amount. This would mean more pelts for the first and second hunt, unless it's “number of hunter minus one” for hunt one and two. This would set an incentive to care about the hunters and to protect them. May need a comment by Gurgan to make the player aware of it like: “But, (alas/by our ancestors), few hunters return, and the (yield?) was poor, I can only give you (number) pelts.”
I would include this incentive to protect the hunters. But it would remove the freedom to kill two of them at the end of each hunt. Or too casually stand back and let them take the damage, until only one is still alive. At which point one has to help. I don't think there is ever any reason to let a hunt fail on purpose? It doesn't allow to work for Paul, and only when the attack on the hospital is about to start has one the option to switch sides (talking to Falber). So, the incentive to protect the hunters (i.e. to continue hunting) is already there. Varying the number of pelts would only strengthen it, I think. And I don't think it would become too tough, either.

When killing doctor Moore, and then leaving before looting his body, and then not helping Alexa with her attack, causes Moore's 13 caps to be covered by the blood stain and they can't be picked up. (http://www.filedropper.com/slot251moore). Not a big deal, but for convenience a solution like with Vex's head (like: don't remove Moore's body until the player entered and left South Side once more), or transferring Moore's inventory to the desk when he dies (if that is possible) could be considered. Mostly for those that are bothered by such inaccessible items.
It is also possible to administer the poison, wait till he dies, and then loot the body, as the South Side doesn't seem to set to “hostile” before leaving the map. But I don't think this is as intended (i.e. the player is supposed to leave in a hurry, not to wait around for Moore to drop dead, and then to loot his body, although it's possible).
If participating in the fight/helping Alexa, and not looting the bodies, and then return later, all the items not yet picked up are under blood stains, too. However in that scenario there is the option to loot the bodies, right after the fight, and before causing them to disappear by leaving the map. (Note: Interestingly enough, in this case (when helping/fighting with Alexa) Moore's body is not removed. That only happens when staying back at Alexa's place, in which case all of Julian's men are replaced by blood stains (without items), including doctor Moore's (with items).)

In the save below (Slot252) I've killed Alexa shortly before she attempts to kill George (which doesn't save him, btw. I assume his sickness kills him in that case). However, I still get free drinks despite Alexa being dead. Which, seems a bit weird? Or am I considered a friend of the whole town now? Which does not entirely add up, as I don't become one by wiping out both gangs (correct?). At least, it does not trigger when I kill Alexa before collecting the XP (for the fight against Julian) (e.g. when I kill Alexa before ending combat).
Perhaps set the condition for free drinks in the North Side bar to “helped Alexa in fight & received XP for it” or “when Julian & Alexa are both dead”. The last may need a dialogue from the bartender. “You know what, buddy, after all you've did for this Rat Hole, I'll let you drink for free. What'd ya say to that?” “Thanks, pal” “What shall it be then” etc.
This isn't necessary, but it would smooth it a little.

After sending Katrin to purchase drugs, I managed to get her reappear before the hour is over. So she walks around as a ghost (floater) but I can't talk to her or see her. This save (http://www.filedropper.com/slot252katrininvisible), shows her as invisible (wait up to 10 seconds for her floater to appear). And from this save (http://www.filedropper.com/slot253katrintrigger) it can be reproduced by: talking to her, give her 10 caps, then send her shopping, leave to the world map (or go to South Side) and immediately re-enter North Side. She should be wandering around as a ghost then, only spawning floaters from time to time (and I thought it's her taking the drugs...).

Also when killing Alexa and waiting an hour, Katrin switches between (“all is lost, Alexa's dead”) and tripping (her happy drug floaters) (which is oddly funny sometimes). This is not a big deal. But shouldn't the realization of Alexa's death set in when she's off the drugs again, rather than switching back and forth? (this can be checked with slot252 (wait for an hour), or 254 (set her up, kill Alexa, then check)). However, it can work either way as drugs can cause irrational behaviour.

And another point: When I send Katrin shopping, and then kill Alexa before collecting my stuff, her “lamenting” also blocks the option to get the items off her. I think it can be argued if this is correct. She could have spend all the caps and drugs once she heard the news of Alexa's death (purchase is gone), or she could stay under drugs, hand over the purchase, and when the drugs wear off, realize what happened and start the (Alexa is dead) floater. This is a game-design decision (which falls in the point above, i.e. at which point should Katrin realize that Alexa is dead).
(http://www.filedropper.com/slot254katrinpurchase) In this save Katrin has already purchased the 2 Stimpaks. You can now either talk to her (and pick them up), or talk to Alexa first, have her commit suicide, and then check that Katrin becomes unresponsive (Stimpaks/300 caps are gone). (Note: killing her or stealing doesn't work either, the Stimpaks are not in her inventory).

http://www.filedropper.com/slot255only1500
This is an odd one. It's right after the battle has ended. When I now approach Alexa, I get 2000 XP. If I run off the map, and talk to her in her store I only get 1500 XP. Are those 500 XP for triggering her “visit” to George? Or are the 2000 XP the error, as Julian's last quest only gives 1500 XP?

And I thought about the 5mm AP ammo which stops working against a high DT, like power armour.
Here is a zipped open office document in which I've made some calculations: http://www.filedropper.com/apammo.
It also includes the numbers for a special rule idea for AP ammo which may work (at least for 5mm): “AP ammo treats any DT greater than 8 as 8”. (like there is only so much AP hits an armour's DT can absorb). This is not a perfect solution but from a game-design point of view a special rule for AP ammo has less impact than changing weapon damages or DT of armours (and the 5mm ammo itself is actually fine). This won't help .44 FMJ or 10mm AP which are both not useful (but I've added two examples of what happens when changing their ammo's DR mod). But that's another issue (and not that pressing as both ammo types are early game mostly).
Another note: if AP ammo is rare, it doesn't have to be balanced, other than by the question “how much damage is it suppose to deal?”, i.e. rarity can balance, too, and consequently you could just overpower AP ammo. Like giving it “2/1”.
<<

NovaRain

User avatar

Liked

Posts: 56

Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2016 5:40 pm

Post Wed Jan 31, 2018 12:00 am

Re: BUGS Swarming our position! Request suppressing fire

Muttie wrote:And I thought about the 5mm AP ammo which stops working against a high DT, like power armour.
Here is a zipped open office document in which I've made some calculations: http://www.filedropper.com/apammo.
It also includes the numbers for a special rule idea for AP ammo which may work (at least for 5mm): “AP ammo treats any DT greater than 8 as 8”. (like there is only so much AP hits an armour's DT can absorb). This is not a perfect solution but from a game-design point of view a special rule for AP ammo has less impact than changing weapon damages or DT of armours (and the 5mm ammo itself is actually fine). This won't help .44 FMJ or 10mm AP which are both not useful (but I've added two examples of what happens when changing their ammo's DR mod). But that's another issue (and not that pressing as both ammo types are early game mostly).
Another note: if AP ammo is rare, it doesn't have to be balanced, other than by the question “how much damage is it suppose to deal?”, i.e. rarity can balance, too, and consequently you could just overpower AP ammo. Like giving it “2/1”.

The default damage calculation in FO2 is flawed, and setting AP ammo's damage mod to 1/1 (what Resurrection did) only helps a bit IMO.
There are at least three different major approaches trying to address the problem:
1. Magnus' F2WR, which overhauls the whole ammo and armor attributes using default formula.
2. Haenlomal's YAAM, which changes ammo's DR mod to DT mod and has an over-penetration calculation (DR -10% for each point of DT over-penetration).
3. Glovz's damage calculation change, which changes X and Y values of damage mod to DR/DT divisors.

Of course, one can make new damage formula much more easily now with sfall hook script, instead of writing tons of ASM like YAAM and Glovz's.
<<

Muttie

Accepted

Posts: 39

Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2017 10:42 pm

Post Thu Feb 01, 2018 11:48 pm

Re: BUGS Swarming our position! Request suppressing fire

NovaRain wrote:The default damage calculation in FO2 is flawed, and setting AP ammo's damage mod to 1/1 (what Resurrection did) only helps a bit IMO.There are at least three different major approaches trying to address the problem:

I agree. But I had the slight Impression that the Resurrection Team wanted to use their own version. And when looking at it, it occured to me that it almost can be made to work with a few more tweaks. But, yes, the actual problem is that the original concept is flawed. And perhaps they'll have to overhaul it eventually. But I also think that Resurrection can still get away with it without having to rewrite the whole thing.

Muttie wrote:After solving the protection money quest (by stealing the money) and the attack on Alexa (without murder quest), I can still talk to the local bartender, and ask for a drink (the overpriced option has been already triggered), but the dialogue won't offer me the option to actually buy one (which I normally can, even after realizing it's overpriced or after killing Alexa. (http://www.filedropper.com/slot244barpurchase). The only thing preventing a purchase, as far as I know, should be when I got the protection money through force (ST or speech), in which case he wouldn't talk to me again).

Another possibility (and correct me if I'm wrong) could be that this save has no money :roll:. No wonder I couldn't purchase anything :oops:. Still, it could add a “Come back when you can pay, punk.” when trying to purchase without money.


And: http://www.filedropper.com/slot256questwipe. When talking to Julian, to end the last of his quests, the quest “get the protection money...” disappears from the status list. This also happens when the murder quest is active, solved and when getting the protection money through strength (http://www.filedropper.com/slot257questwipe2), (i.e. at first I thought this is an indicator if I can return to the bar or not, but no).

Then there is a weird dialogue bug/connection in the “Big O” stargate special encounter. In reply to O'Neall's comment that he is an explorer, one can say: “Wow, that's really a cool occupation, isn't it! You get to see weird stuff, meet new people...” to which he replies “If you think that it's awesome, then you're either a lunatic or you have never killed anybody.”
That feels a bit abrupt as if the player's comment should include something about fighting, that O'Neall reacts to. Like: “Wow, that's really a cool occupation, isn't it! You get to see weird stuff, meet new people...excitement, adventure...sounds awesome.”
Otherwise the connection from Explorer to meeting new people to killing them is technically there but also a bit sudden and not entirely logical to be honest. I've hardly seen Stargate though, so I can't say how “logical” that actually is. But “normally” exploration should not “always” result in killing people.
However, you can also make it even more extreme and turn it into a joke. And O'Neall could reply: “If you think that it's awesome, then you're either a lunatic or you have never faced the fact that each time we explore the (universe?/and bring peace to it?/trying to communicate?) we end up killing someone. (Have you (ever) thought about that? Or) Perhaps you just don't care!”). However, I really don't know Stargate well enough and can't tell if that would be an accurate joke or not.
<<

Muttie

Accepted

Posts: 39

Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2017 10:42 pm

Post Mon Feb 12, 2018 3:59 pm

Re: BUGS Swarming our position! Request suppressing fire

Another “distance not triggering combat” bug, but this one is problematic. (http://www.filedropper.com/slot258gabrielseditbar). When talking to the bartender I get three options: pay 1000, sacrifice/fight Gabriel or defend him (the “try and I'll beat you up” option). The problematic one is the defend option as it doesn't trigger combat. It just ends the dialogue and nothing happens. I can talk to the bartender again, buy services, leave the map, return, talk to Kevin etc. and nothing happens. But the moment I step behind the counter, combat starts. (The usual scenario of combat requiring to get close to a character). However in this case it allows to avoid the Gabriel situation (pay or fight) completely, by never stepping behind the counter. Which is not a big sacrifice, as one has no reason (as far as I know) to go there (once looted), (i.e. in all other scenarios, so far, one always had a reason to get closer to the character or a guard and eventually trigger combat, but not this time). Consequently, it becomes an exploit, allowing to skip the Gabriel/Sedit bar scenario completely. Perhaps the “defend” option needs to set another person in the bar hostile (like a cop next to the door, or dialogue with the bartender etc.).
Previous

Return to Fallout Resurrection - Game Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

cron