BUGS Swarming our position! Request suppressing fire

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czubai
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Re: BUGS Swarming our position! Request suppressing fire

Post by czubai » Sat Jun 01, 2019 10:12 am

Muttie wrote: - The guard at the gate (Sheriff at Sedit). It is possible to talk to the cop right behind the gate, even when the force fields are up. I don't think this should be possible, as it may fail the speech test and cause the cop to become hostile in a later attempt to enter the place (via rope). This may confuse some players if they fail to make the connection why the cop is hostile, and perhaps it would be better to move the cop a little further back from the energy barrier so that talking to him
Hi!

This is killing me atm, I can't enter the villa to progress the Sheriff's son quest. :(
I did manage to use sneak + combat mode to get out the 1st time (when you speak to the guard in combat armor, you get 'teleported' straight into the Sheriff's office to start the quest), but now I can't enter, the moment I get out of combat (even though I walk in sneak during my turn and end it in sneak mode well behind the guard's back), he starts combat with me.

I don't think it makes any sense for the guard to be aggressive just for speaking to him from outside the gate once, when I am now allowed to officially enter the villa.. so I consider this a bug.
Has this been addressed somehow maybe? This thread is the only mention of this I could find so far, but I guess it could've been buried under the sheer amount of text here. :D

(Thank you for making beautiful game!)

//EDIT

I did manage to get past him by investing all of my SP into sneak, pumping it up from 30-something to 101%...
I guess I can edit my save now to get those SP back, but it would be great to avoid that.

//EDIT2

Oh and now I can't get OUT because the forcefield doesn't go down when I approach it in combat mode anymore...

//EDIT3

Ok done it now lol.
I think the problem was that the forcefield was unable to detect my presence due to my high sneak.
I approached from the other side (instead of going behind the guard's back) to be closer to the field and further away from the guard - luckily that worked, the guard was unable to detect me in time even though I was right in front of him.
For anyone having this problem - make sure it's night time too.. so I guess this is our workaround for now.

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Muttie
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Re: BUGS Swarming our position! Request suppressing fire

Post by Muttie » Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:03 am

czubai wrote:I don't think it makes any sense for the guard to be aggressive just for speaking to him from outside the gate once, when I am now allowed to officially enter the villa.. so I consider this a bug.
Has this been addressed somehow maybe? This thread is the only mention of this I could find so far, but I guess it could've been buried under the sheer amount of text here. :D
I'm building a house. :)

Anyway, kudos to you, not only for doing research, but actually finding something!

I did test this once and I got only attacked by the gate guard. If this is the same in your game, and you're working for the sheriff there should be still a rope from the ghoul quest, which you can use to leave and enter (between 22.00 to 4.00).

Still this is a semi-bug as no guard inside the place should be approachable unless the player is inside, too (i.e. an intruder). This one is just standing too close to the barrier and needs to be moved back a little.
Once the sheriff's son has been kidnapped you can actually talk to whoever, even with poor speech. They are all friendly (or worried). However, working for sheriff Carpenter does not seem to reset prior hostility, that's something that could be fixed perhaps. Although, I'm not sure of the scenario: (use rope, talk to guard, trigger hostility, retreat via rope without hitting anyone, then start sheriff's son quest, get invited into his home and get beaten up by the staff & servants). Would that be it?
(Btw, there are several other quests that may be foiled by this “bug”: sheriff's son, Tyler's last quest, kidnapping, nuggets and possibly necklace, too. However, outside of the “gate-guard bug” it's less of an issue as the player will see the consequence of failing speech immediately (& reload), rather than being suddenly surprised by it hours after triggering it.)
Another weird case may be to set the place alert and then go with Lucy. I tested that and the moment I approach the front gate I'm in combat with the guard. I was kind of hoping she would hit me in the kisser the moment I'm done kissing her. But no one (but the one at the gate) reacted which then triggered the entire place.

Anyway, talking of buried under a sheer amount of text,
Did you find the neat „bug“ of doing Tyler's quests and the kidnapping at the same time? All you have to do is start to talk to Tyler and then back out. The „I changed my mind option“ does not interfere with the kidnapping (as Tyler's quest normally does) and you can do both. :)
I still hope they are not going to patch this out.

Another neat trick is to use sex-appeal to free David. It's a bit complicated but possible, and possibly the only „non-violent“ option to free him. I was really thrilled when I figured that one out (i.e. there I am trying to break the game and find it plays along, opening another cool avenue to solve a quest. I've been amazed by this mod so many times. The amount of weird stuff it can handle and “tricks” it allows is really cool). Anyway, (you need to start William's quest and then there is an odd manoeuvring to avoid variables based on what you want to do, but it should even be possible to free David and work for Vex (possibly the only „option“ in the game to do so :)) you just have to do it in the right order (William quest, get Vex quest, free & return boy, then end Vex quest). Pretty cool stuff.)

Another neat easter egg is using “binoculars” on Sabrina before the first time talking to her. Should enable a new dialogue option. But it seems to go nowhere. There is also a guns & bullets magazine in her place but I don't think it can be obtained.

There is also a prisoner in the Sedit police station one can barely click on to get some floaters. Which is also easily missed.

There is so much cool stuff in FoRes. I really have to go back to play some more of it and test out more (I just got sidetracked with other stuff like Fixt, MegaMod, Jackal and Last Hope). However, I learned a lot during those past 6 months (like how to read scripts and open msg files) and how FO works (engine, rules and such) in general. Helpful stuff really.

czubai
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Re: BUGS Swarming our position! Request suppressing fire

Post by czubai » Sun Jun 09, 2019 1:59 pm

Muttie wrote:I did test this once and I got only attacked by the gate guard. If this is the same in your game, and you're working for the sheriff there should be still a rope from the ghoul quest, which you can use to leave and enter (between 22.00 to 4.00).
It's the same guard, unfortunately the rope is not appearing anymore after the ghouls left and told me about sheriff's son, so the gate is my only way in/out. :/
I will just cheese/cheat my way through for now.

Been looking for some teleport or NPC-removal abilities for F2 engine too to solve this but it seems such things don't exist.
Muttie wrote:Still this is a semi-bug as no guard inside the place should be approachable unless the player is inside, too (i.e. an intruder). This one is just standing too close to the barrier and needs to be moved back a little.
Once the sheriff's son has been kidnapped you can actually talk to whoever, even with poor speech. They are all friendly (or worried). However, working for sheriff Carpenter does not seem to reset prior hostility, that's something that could be fixed perhaps. Although, I'm not sure of the scenario: (use rope, talk to guard, trigger hostility, retreat via rope without hitting anyone, then start sheriff's son quest, get invited into his home and get beaten up by the staff & servants). Would that be it?
Yup, moving the guard to make speaking impossible from outside the gate will fix this.
Note that the 1st time you fail to make an excuse for being there as an intruder, you get kicked out as opposed to being attacked. Maybe not even the 1st time but every time?
I remember that speaking to him from outside the gate, obviously, did nothing in terms of kicking me out - and now he's just aggressive. So as you said I haven't reloaded or realized that this might've any consequences much later.

Resetting aggro might be a bit overkill - if a guard recognized you as intruder once, it does make some sense for him to attack later.. I guess.
Maybe there could be a new dialogue triggered when he spots you in which you can clear yourself of the intruder status once you're allowed to be there by the sheriff though.


As for the rest of you post, I stopped reading it because I haven't finished the game yet and don't want spoilers, sorry! :D
I do love breaking the Fallout engine's questlines a lot, trying to complete contradicting quests etc. and checking out the outcomes and how the game will cope. :D
Logic-proofing must be a tough job, I guess I could be a good tester (I actually write code and tests for a living, but not in games :( (yet!)).

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Muttie
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Re: BUGS Swarming our position! Request suppressing fire

Post by Muttie » Mon Jun 10, 2019 10:00 pm

czubai wrote:It's the same guard, unfortunately the rope is not appearing anymore after the ghouls left and told me about sheriff's son, so the gate is my only way in/out. :/
I will just cheese/cheat my way through for now.
That's unfortunate. I did remember that I once had the rope disappear too, but couldn't figure out why or how that happened. I did a test last night and apparently SPOILER: the rope can only be spawned while the „nugget“ quest is active, and if failing to do so, the option is gone when handing over the nuggets. But if the player spawns the rope at least once before that (enter map between 22.00 to 4.00), it should become permanent for the rest of the game (unless the player betrays the ghouls, then it disappears again).
czubai wrote:Note that the 1st time you fail to make an excuse for being there as an intruder, you get kicked out as opposed to being attacked. Maybe not even the 1st time but every time?
I remember that speaking to him from outside the gate, obviously, did nothing in terms of kicking me out - and now he's just aggressive. So as you said I haven't reloaded or realized that this might've any consequences much later.
That's odd. I never had that. Whenever I talk to a guard (and don't have enough speech) or get spotted by Bruce (or talk to Lucy) without invite it immediately starts combat. And when I hit anyone it sets Sedit to hostile (i.e. Keri attacks me). The only time I got kicked out was when I refused to work for Bruce Carpenter (i.e. find his son), I think.
czubai wrote:Resetting aggro might be a bit overkill - if a guard recognized you as intruder once, it does make some sense for him to attack later.. I guess.
Maybe there could be a new dialogue triggered when he spots you in which you can clear yourself of the intruder status once you're allowed to be there by the sheriff though.
My thought was that when being invited by Bruce Carpenter or entering the place arm-in-arm with Lucy Carpenter the staff/guards can't override that, even if they know the player is a crook. It's not that type of place where an employer can confront their boss in regard to security issues. It's just not their place to do so, and I think they would rather keep quite about it. Sedit has also a corruption theme and I think most of the guards don't care that much anyway. They do their job, but if the guy is let in by the boss's wife they probably just ignore it, declare it her problem/responsibility and try to get out of dodge in case things go south.
Another question, though, would be if resetting guard aggressiveness should become permanent or only be reset for the duration of the visit/invitation. Especially, in the case of Lucy the “peace” may be temporarily. First she probably doesn't care that much, and second, the guards may enjoy jumping the player who was parading up & down in front of their noses once the opportunity is there. In the case of Bruce Carpenter (and his quest) I think it should end the aggressiveness of all guards permanently, though, and enter the “pacified” state that is normal once the kidnapping started (especially when accepting the quest). However, once the bug with the gate-guard is fixed, this scenario of having triggered the guards but not the whole town is extremely unlikely anyway.

I guess, there could be a dialogue acknowledgement like “Guess, it checks out. [Grinds his teeth.] OK, you can go about your business, but I'll keep an eye on you.” But I feel they probably would rather stay quite or attack (bullies). They are not “proper” officers/guards who care about their duty, they are more trying to get by and collect a steady pay check.
czubai wrote:As for the rest of you post, I stopped reading it because I haven't finished the game yet and don't want spoilers, sorry! :D
:)

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Re: BUGS Swarming our position! Request suppressing fire

Post by Muttie » Sun Jan 26, 2020 2:02 am

You're back, and with a new haircut. :)
I did some groundwork and I found a few vanilla errors that FoRes didn't address. Perhaps some of them could need fixing. But it's nothing critical or major.

That's:
pro_item.msg (typo Wakizashi, adding the Min ST) (and typo Pulse Rifle, the Min ST is 6, not 3. The weapon is currently not in the game, but...)
{52200}{}{Wakizashi Blade}
{52201}{}{A short finely crafted knife. The tip seems to be designed to pierce armor. Min ST: 2.}
{39700}{}{YK42B Pulse Rifle}
{39701}{}{The YK42B is an electrical pulse weapon that was developed by the Yuma Flats Energy Consortium. It is considered a far superior weapon to the YK32 pistol, having a greater charge capacity and range. Min ST: 6.}

perk.msg
-May fix the missing prompt that it also works on melee attacks (similar to 1103), text is from RP (I just switched “or” to “and” as it's more correct as a rule text, i.e. it's not a choice, but both cost 1 AP less.)
{1102}{}{You have learned the secret arts of the East, or you just punch faster. In any case, your hand-to-hand and melee attacks cost 1 AP less to perform.}
-Numbering issue. (these perks are not used by FoRes, but it can cause a crash when assigning the perk (possible via F12se) and then trying to view them in the character sheet (see RP readme). Using the lines below (from RP) to fix the second set of 1209-1212, fixes this. Better safe than sorry.
{1213}{}{Your hit points have been enhanced a little by repeated use of the autodoc.} # Autodoc Enhanced hit points !!! Seraph's Fix: changed 1209 to 1213
{1214}{}{Your hit points have been enhanced a little more by repeated use of the autodoc.} # Autodoc Enhanced hit points II !!! Seraph's Fix: changed 1210 to 1214
{1215}{}{Your hit points have been lowered slightly by repeated use of the autodoc.} # Autodoc Lowered hit points !!! Seraph's Fix: changed 1211 to 1215
{1216}{}{Your hit points have been lowered slightly by repeated use of the autodoc.} # Autodoc Lowered hit points II !!! Seraph's Fix: changed 1212 to 1216

CMBATAI2.msg (I'm not sure if this msg is even used, but there are some numbering errors)
-Normal Person (Torso). Missing the following line (I wrote it, text may change if you want):
{1137}{}{Dang!}
-Robot (right manipulator). Note that this is already corrected in vanilla “CombatAI.msg”. So it's probably just a copy & paste of that:
{1460}{}{Motivator damage registered}
{1461}{}{Unit struck in right motivator. Damage assessment}
{1462}{}{Motivator hit registered. Attempting to compensate}
-Khan (tough) (attacks). I guess it can't be helped but to delete either 26111 line. Probably the second. Delete:
{26111}{}{Would someone please kill this waste of flesh!}
P.S. Note that the numbering in CombatAI for this “Khan” (26100 to 26166), is completely different. I guess fixing CmbatAi2 doesn't do anything really. Then again not fixing any of these (in CmbatAi2 or CombatAI) does not seem to cause any problems either, except the lines not being used. I deleted entire sections and nothing happened when I hit them in the groin (but silence...). So fixing these documents seems to be mainly about “lines being used”.)
-Paraphrase errors:
{1382}{}{My eyes, bitch!} (already fixed in CombatAI)
{32020}{}{Ow, my arm!} (already fixed in CombatAI)
{32445}{}{::::belch!::::} (remove space)

COMBATAI.msg
-Normal Person (Torso). Missing the following lines (I wrote them, text may change if you want):
{1137}{}{Dang!}
{1141}{}{I... my heart...}
{1142}{}{It's a gut-wound...}
I did test these with LastHope and eventually the lines got used (at least 1137 & 1142).
-Paraphrase error kind of (remove space):
{32445}{}{::::belch!::::}

Btw, during testing I noticed that “wimpy person” uses {1100} when hit in the groin. I emulated the same thing in LH, and there I also got a “normal person” to use {1100} when hit in the head. For some reason there appears to be an overlap (i.e. both use 1100). Not sure why? Engine error perhaps?

Combat.msg (this is a fix from RP, which is necessary, I believe, as the sentence combination makes no sense otherwise. In game it would appear as: {514}{}{%s critically missed} + {108}{}{ and } + {213}{}{your weapon destroyed} OR {214}{}{your weapon dropped}. And “You critically missed and destroyed/dropped your weapon.” sounds better. (The full stop is added by the game). Replace with the following:
{213}{}{destroyed your weapon}
{214}{}{dropped your weapon}
{263}{}{destroyed your weapon}
{264}{}{dropped your weapon}
{313}{}{destroyed his weapon}
{314}{}{dropped his weapon}
{413}{}{destroyed her weapon}
{414}{}{dropped her weapon}

Proto.msg
You may add a space at the end of 546 & 547. Like:
{546}{}{ and is wielding a %s. }
{547}{}{ and is wielding a %s with %d/%d shots of %s. }
This is a hot fix to avoid the issue of “examining a critter with awareness who has crippled limbs”.
In that particular case the line looks like:
“He has %d/%d hps and is wielding a %s.and has crippled limbs.”
Adding the space makes it:
“He has %d/%d hps and is wielding a %s. and has crippled limbs.”
Which is a “bit” better.
Removing the full stop isn't an option as the sentence may end at that point in some cases. And making “and” capitol isn't either as it may be added to the end of a sentence without punctuation. So adding the space seems the best option so far.

Skill.msg (Needs a space after the x)
{302}{}{+ (2 x AG)}

ZiSlots.msg
-701 needs to add a space after the full stop as the game adds the lines 2247-2253 to 701 when the player is intoxicated. (Basically similar to 600).
{701}{}{ caps. }
-And a minor typo, the “a” has been omitted:
{3001}{}{! Baby needs a new pair of shoes!}

Anyway, that were all the interesting ones.

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Re: BUGS Swarming our position! Request suppressing fire

Post by Muttie » Wed Feb 12, 2020 7:04 pm

Muttie wrote:
Sun Jan 26, 2020 2:02 am
CMBATAI2.msg (I'm not sure if this msg is even used, but there are some numbering errors)
...
-Khan (tough) (attacks). I guess it can't be helped but to delete either 26111 line. Probably the second. Delete:
{26111}{}{Would someone please kill this waste of flesh!}
P.S. Note that the numbering in CombatAI for this “Khan” (26100 to 26166), is completely different. I guess fixing CmbatAi2 doesn't do anything really. Then again not fixing any of these (in CmbatAi2 or CombatAI) does not seem to cause any problems either, except the lines not being used. I deleted entire sections and nothing happened when I hit them in the groin (but silence...). So fixing these documents seems to be mainly about “lines being used”.)
Actually, it makes more sense to just copy & paste the numbering of CombatAi.msg than deleting the line. :roll:

Btw, the imperial soldiers in FoRes (like the non-talking version using the Vault Deathclaw packet 29 in Ai.txt) seem to use CombatAI lines for Tough Guards. However, Fo2 does have lines for soldiers (2700f) which are not used by anything in Fo2, it seems. Could be a simple adjustments that adds a bit more variation (i.e. combat lines that sound a bit more “militaristic”, like the call to “retreat” or the “civilian” taunt). I think that could make sense (i.e. Imperial Army members use the Soldier lines while less professional outfits like the Mutant Hunters continue to use the more uncouth Tough Guard ones).
Note: I haven't tested this (i.e. if the imperial soldiers even use packet 29 entry or a different one), I just stumbled upon it while studying CombatAI.msg and Ai.txt and noticed the unused set of Soldier lines.

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